In Syria's current situation, supporting democratic forces is essential - MEP

YEREVAN, DECEMBER 16, ARMENPRESS. Regime change in Syria was the desire of its people, but given the current situation, one should not be naive; it is essential to support the country's democratic forces, believes Evin Incir, a Swedish MEP.

In an interview with Armenpress Brussels corespondent,  Ms.Incir also addressed Turkey's destabilizing role in Syria, the future of Syria's Armenian, Kurdish, and other communities, Azerbaijan's ongoing threats against Armenia, and the reasons behind the EU's inability to act effectively.

According to experts, the American dream became a reality at the instigation of Turkey - the Assad regime no longer exists, for Russia this is considered as a political defeat. How do you assess the current situation and how do you imagine the status of minorities - ordinary Christian, Armenian, Kurdish communities? 

I would say that it is actually the dream of the Syrian people rather than the American dream, even if they might also be satisfied. It is the Syrian people—all the people in the country—who have managed to get rid of the heinous dictatorship of the Assad regime. Now, we need to ensure that the democratic forces in the country get the support they need. Turkey's unlawful actions right now in Syria, with the help of its extremist partners in SNA, must be put to an end and the territorial integrity and sovereignty must be respected. Israel's unlawful actions must also stop.

I do not believe in HTS either for one second. Looking into their history, it is an extremist organization, and I am worried about what can come if the right forces are not receiving support. There is a risk that Afghanistan and Iran will be repeated in Syria. Extremist parties often promise inclusion and democracy and then refuse to deliver. So, the Western world and the international community should not be naive. There is one partner in the 

region—and in Syria—that has delivered consistently through the years: the North and East Syrian Autonomous region.

They need the support they have unfortunately lacked over the years, even though the Kurds, Christians, and many other groups living in northern Syria have been sacrificing their lives in the fight against ISIS.

You mentioned HTS. They had been recognized as a terrorist organization in some countries. However, its actions and statements are acceptable to many superpowers today. Do they really change or does this a real politic? 

I think it’s good that Assad is gone, but we shouldn’t be naive about who some of the main actors in Syria are right now. We heard similar rhetoric from Khomeini during the Iranian revolution, from the Taliban in Afghanistan, and now from HTS, which comes from Al-Qaeda. These extremist organizations know what to say and when to say it, but they never deliver on their promises.

That’s why I emphasize the importance of not being naive regarding developments in the region. While we celebrate Assad’s departure, the next step must be ensuring a truly democratic and inclusive Syria—one that respects all people's rights, including the 

majority Arabs and minority groups. During the years, minority and women’s rights, have been neglected. Without inclusiveness and equality, there isn’t a true democracy.

Turkey is trying to play a role in all existing conflicts, to maintain good relations on all fronts. How do you assess Turkey's current foreign policy? Especially given Erdogan's statement that Turkey has no territorial claims in Syria but will continue fighting against the Kurds?

It’s very evident that Erdogan does not respect Syria's territorial integrity and sovereignty. The Kurdish people for example have always been part of Syria’s history and will be part of the future. Erdogan’s mission has consistently been to eliminate the Kurds because he fears their autonomy in Syria will influence the Kurds in the Turkish part and that they also will demand autonomy.

Furthermore, there is misinformation claiming that the Kurds in Syria come from Turkish territories, which is not true. Most Syrian Kurds have been there for generations. Alongside Christians and Armenians, they have often lived in the region longer than the majority population. Then, of course, some Kurds had moved from northern Kurdistan to eastern to Western to South, etc because of the oppression. 

Erdogan’s actions—such as supporting SNA and taking over parts of Syria—clearly show his ambitions, despite his words to the contrary. Because otherwise their support for SNA to take over bigger and bigger parts of Syria would not have happened.

A few days ago, after a meeting with the Turkish Foreign Minister, the EU High Representative wrote that Turkey is an important strategic partner for the EU. How are such statements received in the Council of Europe?

It looks different in different groups here in the European Parliament, as it does in all parliaments. But I would say that Europe is doing a big strategic, if you want to call it so, but also say a big general mistake when not daring to criticize Turkey. Many far-right and center-right politicians are hesitant due to fears of migration, linked to the EU-Turkey migration agreement. To ensure that people are not forcibly displaced,  the best way is to end conflicts, not stay silent against oppressors.

Turkey’s actions create conflicts and force more people to leave their homes, and their families. Yet, the European Commission and several Member States have acted in contradiction to their interests. The EU should focus on ending conflicts rather than indirectly encouraging despots. Ensuring stability should be a shared interest—not just for the European Union, but for all people—because nobody wants to be displaced. Majority of people wants to stay where they are. My parents were forced to leave Turkey 

because of the political oppression in Turkey during the 80s beginning of the 90s, which in a way still persists. 

Another displaced population is the Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh and the developments in Syria, if not directly, then indirectly relate to the South Caucasus, where developments do not seem promising these days either. Azerbaijan continues its anti-Armenian rhetoric, policy and threats. The negotiations have not yet led to the signing of a peace treaty. How is all this perceived at the European level?

The EU has soft power through trade agreements and cooperation, but it has failed to use it effectively due to disagreements among Member States. One of the biggest problems is the lack of unanimity between the Member States. Azerbaijan, for example, is laundering Russian gas and oil while conflicts persist. Turkey indeed plays a role in many contexts of situations. But the question is what kind of role, and unfortunately in all the contexts that I can see until now, it's only been a bad role. 

Turkey, too, has played a detrimental role in Nagorno-Karabakh, Syria, and elsewhere. Despite this, the EU has failed to address Erdogan decisively. Instead, fear seems to dominate decision-making..

How confident do you think the new composition of the European Commission is in the context of the current challenges?

I see issues with the new High Representative’s limited experience, which focuses mainly on Russia and Ukraine. While addressing Russian aggression against Ukraine is essential, the EU must also be a global actor capable of addressing other conflicts, including the South Caucasus and the Middle East. 

Unfortunately, until now I have not really seen the new High Representative deliver solutions. She has a lot to learn, but at the same time, the world is not stopping to develop in one way or the other, because we or our representative needs time to understand the context.

The President of the Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, announced a phone call with Erdogan regarding Syria and plans to visit Turkey next week. This delay in response shows a worrying lack of urgency. Since everything is right now happening per minute, to wait a week from now, could mean we'll have another Middle East. 

Last but not least, now that Sweden too is a member of NATO, do you think that fact has increased Sweden's security? What is Sweden’s public opinion regarding Russia's war on Ukraine, especially that it was this war that triggered Sweden's membership in NATO?

Most Swedes feel that unity among countries enhances security. However, Turkey remains a problematic NATO member that doesn’t respect agreements. 23 out of 27 of 

the EU Member States are a member of NATO. I think that those 23 countries could play a significant role within the NATO if they jointly put pressure on Turkey. That is possible but hasn’t been exercised effectively.

Do you want to add something?

Yes, I believe the future of Syria will especially affect minorities and women. The situation in one country can easily spill over and destabilize the entire region and the EU needs to recognize these connections to respond effectively. Russia and Turkey use these created opportunities to their advantage, which is of course not to our advantage in the sense of respecting international law and human rights. EU must start acting.