Turkey's normalization of relations with Armenia will contribute to Azerbaijan acting more constructively in negotiations: Ambassador Mkrtchyan's interview with Financial Mirror

YEREVAN, JUNE 28, ARMENPRESS. The settlement of Armenia-Turkey relations is also important in the context of the settlement of Armenia-Azerbaijan relations, which will contribute to the establishment of stable peace in the region, said the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Armenia to the Hellenic Republic, the Republic of Albania, and the Republic of Cyprus Tigran Mkrtchyan in an interview with the Cyprus Financial Mirror.

The interview is presented below:

-  Mr. Ambassador, there have been a lot of events happening over the past year: the situation in Artsakh, where Armenia stands regarding the events around Europe, not just Russia and Ukraine but also the Middle East, and developments in Europe itself. Perhaps you can tell us a few words about your latest visit to Cyprus?

- This is my visit to Cyprus as the Ambassador of Armenia to Cyprus. For some time, I was unable to visit Cyprus, so this visit is a way to resume my functions as Ambassador. I'm planning to have several meetings with the government sector, academia, research institutes, and municipalities. I've already had a meeting with the Paphos municipality and the mayor, which was very interesting and promising. The aim of all this is, of course, to continue strengthening and enhancing the relations between Armenia and Cyprus, which have traditionally been very strong. We consider Cyprus one of the main partners of Armenia in the EU and a strategic partner bilaterally. Cyprus is an extremely reliable partner and strong supporter of Armenia on all matters of interest, and Armenia also supports Cyprus wherever there is a need for that. 

 In the near future, we are expecting a visit from the Cyprus Defense Ministry to Armenia. The cooperation between us includes political, social, economic, and importantly, defense cooperation. We had a visit from the Defense Minister of Armenia to Cyprus late last year, and now we will have a reciprocated visit from the Cyprus side to Armenia, which will hopefully further enhance Armenia's defense partnership with Cyprus. This is the main outline and framework of my recent visit to Cyprus.

-  So it's not just social events such as meeting the community or boosting bilateral ties economically, but it also goes deeper into the political aspect. That brings me to the next question. The recent events with Azerbaijan occupying and taking over Artsakh—what has happened since then, and where does Armenia stand now with Azerbaijan? We often hear about threats or instability along the borders, a situation we are quite aware of here in Cyprus. What is the situation today regarding this issue?

- It's well known that Armenia and Azerbaijan are continuing to negotiate to finally establish relations. The negotiations are around the peace agreement. We have stated several times that Armenia is ready to proceed with signing a peace agreement with Azerbaijan. From Azerbaijan, we also heard such willingness, but there are a few matters that still need clarification and mutual agreement. One of the main issues is that the agreement will endorse the territorial integrity and sovereignty of both states. The last document that confirmed this mutual agreement was the Alma-Ata Declaration in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union when the states reaffirmed the administrative borders existing between the countries, and in this case between Armenia and Azerbaijan. 

The borders were delineated in 1969, I think, and finalized in 1975. The borders do exist, and what is needed is to reaffirm the commitment to that declaration. We do not need to reinvent new borders; it is about reaffirming what has existed in the past to avoid whimsical interpretation of where the borders stand. In the past, the Azerbaijani leadership has said, "Wherever our soldiers stand, there is our border," which is an irresponsible approach. Therefore, this affirmation of the Alma-Ata Declaration is of essential importance. The recent delimitation in the northeastern part of Armenia between Armenia and Azerbaijan was implemented according to the Alma-Ata Declaration logic. Azerbaijan's somewhat resistance to including the Alma-Ata statement in the peace agreement is not encouraging. If we want a peaceful and prosperous region, we cannot proceed with dubious wording in the peace treaty.

The second point of concern is connectivity and opening all trade routes, railroads, etc., that existed during the Soviet period between the countries, as well as opening new ones. All of this should be done according to international law, which states that the routes and connection roads running through the countries should be within the jurisdiction of those countries, and they should themselves be responsible for the safety and security of those roads, with functioning checkpoints upon entrance and exit. Armenia supports this approach, which is also strongly supported by our friends in Europe, the United States, and several other countries in the international community, including China, India, and Iran. However, Azerbaijan occasionally refers to the logic of a corridor in the southern Armenia, where security should be provided by third countries' forces and without any checkpoints, which is against international law. This point of disagreement needs revision for a peaceful and stable region.

So this is another point where we have a disagreement and I think its references to, for example, 2020 November 9th statement as if there is in it a point about a Corridor is certainly a disingenuous step because there is no mentioning of any Corridor within Armenia in that statement. There is a mentioning of a corridor which is Lachin Corridor which in fact does not exist as well as all the other articles of that statement have been violated and basically this document has become defunct,  invalid. So it's not any more valid to refer to a document which has ceased to exist and all of its points have been violated by Azerbaijan. 

And to claim just one article and misrepresenting, misinterpreting that and then bragging internationally saying that “I am the one who invented the term Zangezur Corridor.” Armenia cannot accept this logic, and these points remain major stumbling blocks to signing an agreement. 

Of course there are some other issues and we should not refrain from talking about this. Another significant issue is the return of all captives held in Baku prisons and addressing the artificial charges against them, including former leadership of Nagorno-Karabakh. 

The Armenian cultural heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh is being alarmingly eradicated or distorted, aiming to exclude the future return of Armenians. The destruction of symbolic buildings like the former parliament of Nagorno-Karabakh and the prevention of Armenians' return is a form of vandalism. The right of return for the people of Nagorno-Karabakh is crucial, though we cannot plan such a thing now, given the current political structure in Azerbaijan. You don't hear about minorities in Azerbaijan generally or you don't hear about freedom of speech in general. You may hear about this or that minority when it's convenient to the leadership in Baku. Regarding Armenians of course, the policy is to exclude the return and there is also another feature of more expansionist agenda which has been propagated in Azerbaijan, the so-called "Western Azerbaijan" dogma, and the so-called Great Return of Azeris to Western Azerbaijan, which is presented as the entire territory of Armenia. It's politically backed by the leadership of the country. If there is any genuine willingness to live in peace, security, and stability in this region, Azerbaijan needs to stop all these activities and return to a more civilized way of negotiations, not constantly putting pressure and threatening Armenia with its existence.

These are topics that need to be understood and elaborated on. But of course, Armenia is not using any of this as an excuse to refrain from negotiating with Azerbaijan in terms of establishing relations and signing peace agreements. This is something that is going on and it should continue until we achieve a safe and secure environment for the Republic of Armenia.

- Okay, well, where is the work to be done to ensure that these negotiations are taking place in a fair environment? Where is more work needed on behalf of Armenia to gain some assistance? Is it possibly the European Union? Is it possibly a lot of individual European countries? Let’s not go  as far away as th United States or NATO or other international alliances, or even Russia, which is now busy with another conflict elsewhere. What will help Armenia? Turning to Europe for assistance, for helping to find peaceful negotiations with Azerbaijan or in general establishing stronger ties with European states or the European Union itself.

- In normal conditions, Armenia should negotiate with Azerbaijan without external actors, but we don't live in normal conditions. Therefore, the presence of the international community is often necessary. In the past, negotiations were conducted in the presence of mediators like the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairmanship, which included the United States, Russia, and France. Currently, this format is not functioning due to disagreements among these countries. Negotiations have often been conducted in the presence of Russian, U.S., or EU representatives. 

It’s not that we are seeking for support, but the international community has been kind enough to offer its assistance in achieving peaceful coexistence between our countries. It’s not only the West or Russia that have been viewed as potential supporters. I should underline that negotiations in the presence of Russia have not been conducted for a very long time. There are also other formats possible for discussion. It’s not the external actor that matters; what matters is the political will that exists in Armenia and the genuine, sincere political will expected from Azerbaijan if they are ready to step up and embrace the genuine negotiations offered by Armenia. 

As for partnerships or partners, Armenia is ready to welcome any partners genuinely interested in supporting Armenia, whether from Asia, our region, Europe, or the United States. We can discuss this, of course, but the European Union is certainly one of the most important partners in this process and in Armenia’s progress in the coming decades.

-  Armenia has undergone quite a lot of reform, similar to Cyprus during its EU accession, where extensive reforms were needed in all sectors, not just public sector institutions and infrastructure. This is also happening in Armenia, not just for Armenia’s benefit but also for harmonizing Armenia further with Europe and the European Union.

-  With the EU, we are at a new beginning. The rapprochement between the EU and Armenia over the last few years is in many ways unprecedented. The general framework of the Armenian-EU relations is CEPA - the Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement signed in 2017. The implementation is now being carried out in an unprecedented way, with new toolkits and formats introduced to enhance Armenia-EU relations and the EU’s role in Armenia in all areas of cooperation. This isn’t just about the reform agenda or democratic processes in Armenia, judiciary reforms, other reforms, but also about economy, investments, sustainable growth, resilience, and defense and security.

This is a comprehensive cooperation. Recently, all these points were underscored in the EU-Armenia Partnership Committee meeting in Yerevan on June 11-12. These areas of cooperation were also underlined during and after the meeting between President of European Commision Ursula von der Leyen, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, and Vice President Josep Borrell on April 5 in Brussels. The main directions of cooperation between Armenia and the EU, as well as with the US, were detailed in that statement which serves as a guideline for our relations.

-  Another EU aspirant, potential partner is Turkey, which also aspires to get closer to the European Union and seeks full EU accession. However, many issues hold it back. What is the situation today between Armenia and Turkey? Because we know that is now issue of Armenia and Azerbaijan and I could say that relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan are mirrored in Armenia’s relations with Turkey. Although Armenia’s relations with Georgia have improved. It’s alwasy been a good relationship but it’s becoming warmer and it has a respectful relationship with Iran,but  international events prevent further development. Armenia is sandwiched between Azerbaijan and Turkey, and historical issues are also present. So what is the situation today if you could present a little bit?

-    Before talking about that, I would like to make a couple more points about our relations with the Europe. First, I want to stress that Armenia is getting closer to Europe not merely because of what we can offer or bring to the table, but because of what Armenia fundamentally is. Armenia is a democratic country that respects human rights, freedom of speech, and all basic and fundamental freedoms. Essentially, in its value system, Armenia is a European country. This is why Armenia is getting closer to Europe. From a civilizational standpoint, Armenia aligns closely with European values, which naturally brings us closer to Europe. And also I would like to quote from that statement I made a reference that  ‘’All sides reaffirmed their support for Armenia's sovereignty, democracy, territorial integrity, and socioeconomic resilience once agan dressing that a prosperous, sovereign, and democratic Armenia, which develops its own partnerships and sets its own course, will contribute to regional stability and prosperity’’. The document basically underlines that Armenia is capable of offering something in many ways. We are talking about stability and prosperity. For example, the concept of the Crossroads of Peace proposed by the Armenian government is about that. It is not only about trade but also stability, peace, and connectivity between the East and the West, North and the South. This is something that has been very much welcomed by our partners in the West.

We hope that our immediate neighbors also would not reject this. There is still a lukewarm position on behalf of Azerbaijan and Turkey, but we expect that eventually, they will understand that the long-term interest of the region is about inclusivity and that everybody in the region participates in projects aimed at enhancing our prosperity. You cannot have prosperity of your own at the cost of your immediate neighbor. Circumventing Armenia in all these projects is not benefiting regional security and safety. It is not in the interest of Azerbaijan.

Therefore, the idea of the crossroads of peace proposed by Armenia is a brilliant opportunity for our neighbors to finally establish these relations. I would like to stress that the Almaty Declaration was welcomed by our European and American partners in that statement and also in later bilateral meetings because Armenia's sovereignty and territorial integrity are of utmost importance not only for Armenia but also for all our partner-friendly countries.

In our talks with the EU, the launch of the dialogue on visa liberalization is of utmost importance. This is something that has been ongoing for some time. We hope we are very close to this. Once this happens, it will further bring Armenia closer to Europe because people-to-people contact is the first step in further enhancing economic, political, and security cooperation between our sides.

Now, coming back to your last question about Armenia and Turkey. This is very interesting because just yesterday there was a press release about the telephone conversation between the Armenian Prime Minister and the Turkish President. According to this, the sides have reaffirmed their commitment to continue the talks on the establishment of diplomatic relations without any preconditions.

This is extremely important because in the past, we know that Turkey had been using the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh to block the establishment of relations and the opening of borders with Armenia. Now, we see that Turkey is more or less expressing willingness to proceed without any preconditions. Understandably, we all know that after Nagorno-Karabakh's ethnic cleansing, in a way Turkey should not have any reasons to create artificial problems for Armenia.

Well, it should not, but unfortunately, it has been very much deferring to Azerbaijan on every step it is making towards Armenia. There are special representatives appointed by the government of Armenia and by the government of Turkey who are regularly meeting. Initially, there were expectations that the borders might be opened for third-country citizens as well as for people with diplomatic passports. This is still to be seen and implemented.

There was also an idea to jointly restore the Ani historical bridge. We are looking forward to seeing when this will happen. I firmly believe that Turkey's normalization of relations with Armenia will contribute to Azerbaijan acting more constructively in the negotiations and moving forward in terms of signing the peace agreement without creating artificial hurdles. This would be an incentive for regional security and safety. When Azerbaijan sees that there is unwavering support for its whimsical behavior from Turkey, it acts more destructively and not cooperatively, more arrogantly if you like. Therefore, Turkey can play a positive role in this respect by initiating the normalization of relations with Armenia. It is in the interest of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and the wider region. Therefore Turkey's foreign policy should not be a captive to Baku's desires. This is how I see the process, and hopefully, we will have some good news on one or the other account.

-  Your Excellency, thank you very much for this extremely informative session. 

I think we will need to follow up and monitor how things are developing because it is important not only to Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia-Turkey relations contributing to the Armenia-Azerbaijan relationship improving somehow, but also it will help improve Turkey's image within the European Union where we in Cyprus, we also see the realities of when Turkey itself acts in a destructive or nonproductive manner; it just doesn't help ut at all.

We are all just waiting for something to happen, some progress towards a solution or something. Instead of waiting, perhaps it is time to take a little bit more proactive action, at least from any of the other sides, because quite clearly Armenia is taking its own measures. Armenia is taking proactive actions and measures to improve the situation in the region and to establish after all security and stability, which is something that is definitely needed in the entire region.