YEREVAN, AUGUST 1, ARMENPRESS. Member of the European Parliament Nacho Sánchez Amor (Spain) has said that there are positive signals for progress in terms of EU-Turkey and Armenia-Turkey relations, but at the same time he has warned that Turkey is an unpredictable country.

Nacho Sánchez Amor, the rapporteur on Turkey in the European Parliament, gave an interview to ARMENPRESS Brussels correspondent Lilit Gasparyan on the latest report on Turkey, its foreign policy, the probability of Turkey someday recognizing the Armenian Genocide, the Armenia-Turkey normalization process and the possibility of Turkey joining the EU.

ARMENPRESS: Your latest report on Turkey welcomes the process of normalization of Armenia-Turkey relations. How realistic do you think a settlement is, considering Turkey's endless preconditions? And what effect can this have on Armenia-Azerbaijan relations?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: Well, I think it depends on the real political will of both parties. I think it's good that at least they started this conversation. It's good that they appointed two interlocutors, but apparently after this good first impression there was a moment of stagnation. I don't know, I'm not aware of some talks that could have happened more discreetly, but I think it's good in the current moment, when apparently Turkey is sending signals of some kind of openness and is trying to mend ties with every neighbor. I think Armenia is very symbiotic of this policy, this really new policy and for that reason, we encourage both parties to continue dealing with the bilateral issues because this is good for both and this is good for the region. 

ARMENPRESS: Like last year, this year as well the report urges Turkey to recognize the Armenian Genocide, how realistic is this?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: I think it depends... It depends... There were some approaches in the past and there were some attempts to try to have a common ground. If there is a good bilateral relation, it could be the moment to try to encounter the way in which both parties could reach some kind of agreement on how to tackle the issue. There were, I remember, some ideas about historians or political moves, but it depends on the mood. If the mood is better, it could be a thing to be put on the agenda, how to tackle the issue, probably not to go fast to an immediate and plain recognition, but at least how to tackle this. Trying to keep the position of both parties. I think it's good. Regarding the Armenian Genocide – this is the traditional position of the European Parliament. We are always trying to send the message and for that reason we use the word again and again, to recognize, because that has been and is a very traditional position. 

ARMENPRESS: Now for many years you are following Turkey very closely. How do you assess Turkey’s role in the South Caucasus, what effect does it have on Azerbaijani President Aliyev?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: Well, the problem with Turkey, like in other countries is improvising, you can never know what could happen because things change overnight, because the system is so hyper centralized that everything depends on one person and two or three desks in the palace and for that reason you see, as we are seeing complete shifting, complete delving, complete abandoning positions, exploring other ways. And for that reason, you never know what could happen with Turkey. But what I know is, apparently, Turkey is coming back to the old idea of zero problems with neighbors. And this is a good policy. I think we encourage that kind of policies and if you have a problem, you have to deal with the problem with the normal diplomatic means. No putting pressure on the statement. No, of course not using military means, not threatening but talking. This is the way we have been calling Turkey to come back to a more normalized foreign policy. And for that reason, we encourage these policies. Realistic? I'm not sure, but at least the signals we have received lately are good signals. 

ARMENPRESS: After the last elections held in Turkey, many are desperate, many are optimistic. What is your position? Should we expect changes in Turkey's foreign policy or not?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: Yes, of course. I don't have a particular personal opinion on domestic politics in Turkey. We have to deal with Turkey as it is and with the government that the Turkish people choose. But even we know that during the elections there were some problems that were clearly detected by the international electoral observation that was done. We have to deal with Turkey as it is and we try to encourage the moves and the drills and the opinions in Turkey, they are more conducive to good relations with their neighbors and with the European Union. This is our stance. I think yes, it's true. Well, they are having local elections and probably this is again a moment of more tensions. But it's true that President Erdogan has five years ahead to try to compose a more consensual policy and foreign policy, and I think this is also related with the economic direct threat of the country, it is in a very difficult situation from the economic point of view, and probably that could help to try to conduct foreign policy which is more friendly, more open and less assertive, and sometimes we use assertive not to use aggressive, but I think it's good that for whatever reasons Turkey have realized that they need to have different ties with the neighbors, and with the blocks and with the European Union, the United States and China and Russia. 

ARMENPRESS: You propose an alternative way of cooperation with Turkey instead of EU membership, what format are we talking about?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: Well, finally we reached an agreement in the Parliament, not to get rid of the accession process immediately, but to try to maintain the accession process as it is, meaning frozen, and try to really, seriously explore other ways. Because the accession process has not been functional. The conduct of reforms has not protected, unluckily, the profile of a democratic society in Turkey, and this is becoming growingly dysfunctional. The idea is let's explore other ways. There are some approaches to come back or to explore deeply or to review. The whole association agreement. It's good to remind that the current customs union is pending under the umbrella of the old association agreement and we have to deal with the agenda as we can deal with custom unions. We always have been open to that. We have to deal with visa with the conditionalities well known in Europe and not so well known in Turkey. Apparently, we have to deal with migration. We have to deal with economic cooperation in our area, we have to resume the higher level talks because it's a little bit cynical than theoretically we don't have an element of that. There are a lot of Commissioners and a High Representative, and the Presidential Commission and the Council dealing with, we took his authority, but theoretically we don't have high level talks. There is a lot of things that we can do to mend the agenda, to regain trust. This is the first step to regain trust and try to fix or try to create another framework in the relations with Turkey. 

ARMENPRESS: What is your assessment of Turkey-EU relations from now on?

Nacho Sánchez Amor: With the EU, it's the same. There are no changes because despite what happened in the world, despite the Green Deal, despite the geopolitical earthquakes, the accession to the European Union is about a very clear process, you have to approach the European Union in every field and one field at the core of the accession process is human rights, democracy, rule of law and from this point of view, there is no minor signal of improvement, not even a minor signal. The gestures of the state, the facts are sending a very confusing message. There are prisoners like Osman Kavala and Selahattin Demirtas despite the rulings of the European Court of Human Rights, the prosecution of HDP as the party. There are journalists in prison. There are clashing with LGTB movement activists and feminist activists.

And regarding the European Union accession process, these are the things we have to assess and examine. Is not just, say, the good behavior of Turkey in the Greek island, in Cyprus, in the Black Sea, in the Green Deal or in the prisons. That is we welcome any good move in that question, but the official process is completely different and for that reason se were astonished when the [Turkish] president said OK, I let Sweden to enter the coalition, but we have to get something from the EU. These have nothing to do with each other. I criticized openly the NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg. I know for sure that Mr. Stoltenberg has to fix the issue. But the accession process to the European Union is not a bargain piece inside the NATO.